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posted by KatiiCullen94
I've noticed that alot of members have been saying "Oh yeah, she went crazy over just a boy she only just met. She went a bit over the top, overreacted."
Well this is how I see it. I know I am going to get shit for this, but perhaps this will give toi a little plus open mindness.
Personal experience: I acted the same, I did everything I possibly could to see him. I tried to commit sucicde, I look back and think .. I was so young, toi survive after it.
But Bella was older and what they had was ALOT different to a NORMAL relationship. They were physically made for each other. Which is very powerful and changes your whole life. She changed her life around for him, because she knew this is her life, and she loved it.
She Lost her lover, her best friend, her supporter. That one person that made her feel like she was worth everything. Not only did she feel lonely, but she blamed herself. He made her feel good about herself. Plus, the fact that he couldn't read her mind and the fact that she was HIS human who's blood is their one and only,that special once in a lifetime blood. That italian word. Depicted that their were one match.
It was obvious that she was made for him... AND it was gone... toi don't how much toi l’amour something/one until it's gone.
He was her soul mate, yes.. But she Lost alot more, her future, her plans. She hit rock bottom because she was left with nothing, she had to design a new future, new plans, like she had to start from scratch. Her future had been snatched away from her. She was practically feeling, what's to live for when what toi were made for is gone? Which is fair enough.
People never fully heal after their "soul mate" ou forever partner leaves ou dies.
Well it's sorta differnt if they just turn around one jour and say, "I don't like toi anymore, and your never going to see me again"
Which adds plus depression onto it. Bella would've been better if she had seen him every once and an while.
And even in the book , she was constantly stating that with him gone and all the evidence of him gone, it was as if he had never existed in the first place, and that she had dreamt it all.
Therfore questioning her own sanity. That screws with your head, making toi doubt everything toi do ou say, making yourself wonder if toi were just saying shit and people are judging you.
That's a hard concept, did toi dream the best time of your life. That's cœur, coeur shattering..
She had no-one to hug her better,( in the early days) to talk to her/
- Charlie was too scared to talk to her.
- Her school Friends justs diddn't give a shit, they were too caught up in their own affairs.
- Her mother stresses her out more.
- Alice had disowned her in the process.
- Jacob was there, but he was trying to hit on her which made her sad,( another additon) because she was hurting him everytime.
Which also contributes to depression, knowing that nobody cares ou that toi are alone in this sad period.
In relation to her just meeting him...
Well twilight was set in 2005, ( I can't remember what month) But she was in her junior an (Year 11) and in New Moon she celebrates her 18th Birthday, and she was 17 in Twilight... depending on wheither which mois twilight orginated but that gives them a an to a six months considering shes graduates in Eclipse.
She haddn't just met him but rather dating for a few months give ou take.
Also knowing that toi are going to spending the rest of your life with this man makes your connection with him soo strong that it doesn't matter how long you've been with him.
l’amour doesn't need time for reasoning.
If its real love, then it doesn't matter.
This was her love, give her a break. This happens plus then toi can imagine....
Sorry for the errors guys, I hope toi can read it still, I went over it but I know myself too well.
Well this is how I see it. I know I am going to get shit for this, but perhaps this will give toi a little plus open mindness.
Personal experience: I acted the same, I did everything I possibly could to see him. I tried to commit sucicde, I look back and think .. I was so young, toi survive after it.
But Bella was older and what they had was ALOT different to a NORMAL relationship. They were physically made for each other. Which is very powerful and changes your whole life. She changed her life around for him, because she knew this is her life, and she loved it.
She Lost her lover, her best friend, her supporter. That one person that made her feel like she was worth everything. Not only did she feel lonely, but she blamed herself. He made her feel good about herself. Plus, the fact that he couldn't read her mind and the fact that she was HIS human who's blood is their one and only,that special once in a lifetime blood. That italian word. Depicted that their were one match.
It was obvious that she was made for him... AND it was gone... toi don't how much toi l’amour something/one until it's gone.
He was her soul mate, yes.. But she Lost alot more, her future, her plans. She hit rock bottom because she was left with nothing, she had to design a new future, new plans, like she had to start from scratch. Her future had been snatched away from her. She was practically feeling, what's to live for when what toi were made for is gone? Which is fair enough.
People never fully heal after their "soul mate" ou forever partner leaves ou dies.
Well it's sorta differnt if they just turn around one jour and say, "I don't like toi anymore, and your never going to see me again"
Which adds plus depression onto it. Bella would've been better if she had seen him every once and an while.
And even in the book , she was constantly stating that with him gone and all the evidence of him gone, it was as if he had never existed in the first place, and that she had dreamt it all.
Therfore questioning her own sanity. That screws with your head, making toi doubt everything toi do ou say, making yourself wonder if toi were just saying shit and people are judging you.
That's a hard concept, did toi dream the best time of your life. That's cœur, coeur shattering..
She had no-one to hug her better,( in the early days) to talk to her/
- Charlie was too scared to talk to her.
- Her school Friends justs diddn't give a shit, they were too caught up in their own affairs.
- Her mother stresses her out more.
- Alice had disowned her in the process.
- Jacob was there, but he was trying to hit on her which made her sad,( another additon) because she was hurting him everytime.
Which also contributes to depression, knowing that nobody cares ou that toi are alone in this sad period.
In relation to her just meeting him...
Well twilight was set in 2005, ( I can't remember what month) But she was in her junior an (Year 11) and in New Moon she celebrates her 18th Birthday, and she was 17 in Twilight... depending on wheither which mois twilight orginated but that gives them a an to a six months considering shes graduates in Eclipse.
She haddn't just met him but rather dating for a few months give ou take.
Also knowing that toi are going to spending the rest of your life with this man makes your connection with him soo strong that it doesn't matter how long you've been with him.
l’amour doesn't need time for reasoning.
If its real love, then it doesn't matter.
This was her love, give her a break. This happens plus then toi can imagine....
Sorry for the errors guys, I hope toi can read it still, I went over it but I know myself too well.
DracoLuver, Emmalie1935 and 7 others like this
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DracoLuver I agree with Cassie.
Bella can't think: "I'm different because..." She just is, and the reader understands that after a while. It wouldn't make sense for Meyer to add Bella's back story when the story is first POV. That would mean Bella is thinking everything, and how many of us think about our back stories in full detail?
Also, in writing, it's calling showing not telling. In Harry Potter, we're never told Harry is stubborn or what makes him stubborn, he just is and we're given proof.
Same with Bella: we're not told she's different, but the way she behaves is different from what the majority of people would do.
Merope29 So it's just okay for the author to leave the readers in the dark with no inkling whatsoever of what makes a certain character tick? and this isn't just any character - she's the protagonist. it's written in her first person POV. How then, would that help the readers empathize with the character?
No wonder they call her a Mary Sue. She's special. period. it doesn't necessarily have to be directly stated by having her say, "I'm different because..." there are different, more creative ways around this. The creative writer knows.
of course none of us need to think our own back stories in full detail because they're "our" back stories. we already know them. we don't have audiences in our heads who's trying to read our stories and whom we need to keep informed. But twilight is a book. It is S.Meyer's responsibility to inform her reader. Especially because it's in first person POV.
Harry was different too. but his "specialness" was explained. But with Bella, she's just special. She just happens to be irresistible to vampires and werewolves. She just happens to be immune to a vampire's special abilities. She just happens to be different from any girl that she never had any goals outside Eddie. She just happens to be so special that when her boyfriend left her she was so devastated she tried jumping off cliffs just to hear his voice. Her unexplained "specialness" excused her behavior. See why I still don't see the logic?
cassie-1-2-3 It was explained why Bella was immuned to certain vapire powers. I think you just choose to ignore it. She blocks bad memories from herself. This was demonstraited as well.
She was reluctant to tell Edward about her past, her mother's past, about Phil. The biggest demonstration was during New Moon. When Edward left, she didn't allow herself to think about him, or anything for three months, as to avoid painful memories. She wasn't stupid and just forgot to think. Because of this block, it's expected that Edward would be blocked as well. If Bella ignores her hippocampus, how can Edward, or anyone else, get into it? It didn't "just so happen". There's a reason.
She was different socially because she didn't like being social. She didn't date, she didn't like going out, she didn't like too many people being around her. This was shown in the books as well.
She was not irresistable to vampires and werewolves. She was irresistable to Edward. Jacob was attracted to her just because he was. It had nothing to do with being a wolf. No other supernatural creature was interested in her in such a way. Mike was attracted to her because it's natural for people be attracted to people.
To answer your question, if leaving something out is the best thig for the story, that wouldn't contradict key factors, then yes, it's okay.
You see all that I typed? That's the logic you can't find, or refuse to notice.
DracoLuver Adding to Cassie's thoughts: maybe the reason why we don't know Bella's back story is because, as Cass stated, Bella chooses to forget memories. Her thinking of her past life would sadden her, so she simply chose to move on. Her back story isn't important to us and it doesn't help progress the story in any way, so it would be just useless writing that gets us no where. It would help us understand Bella more, but as I said, she's different. It would be hard for us to relate to her.
I'm not saying she's special, she's just different: she likes cooking and cleaning, doesn't like too many friends, doesn't go out often, prefers doing homework, etc.
She's not a normal teenager and we see that through the novels.
Merope29 Why didn't she like being social? Why was Jacob and Mike and all the other guys in the school attracted to her? Why was she the only person able to "block" Edward? see, her specialness wasn't explained.
Yes. Leaving something out is okay. But this is the main protagonist's past we're talking about. How will the reader be able to empathize with her, to see the story in her POV if they aren't able to gouge out what made this person this way? That's why it seems illogical and unrealistic for her not to have any plans and future before meeting Edward, for her to make Eddie her "whole life" just after they met. Well, what about her past? Is there nothing there worth living for?
cassie-1-2-3 Because people don"t have to be social. Because of her looks. Because... I just told you why... Does everything have to be specifically mapped out for you believe anything?
Drisina You think being social/sociable is something you can just switch it on and off ?
youknowit101 Bella didn't like being social because she's antisocial. It's simple.
"Why was Jacob and Mike and all the other guys in the school attracted to her?"
Why were guys attracted to Ginny?
Why did Ron like Hermione's skin?
Why did Ron like chocolate?
Why did Hermione like reading?
These are all ridiculous.
The answer to all of them is because they do.
Edward wasn't the only vampire she blocked.
DracoLuver [i]Why didn't she like being social? Why was Jacob and Mike and all the other guys in the school attracted to her? Why was she the only person able to "block" Edward? see, her specialness wasn't explained.[/i]
You don't CHOOSE to be social or not. You either are or you're not. this isn't a book about phsycology. She's just anti-social. That doesn't make her special at all. It's the same with Harry Potter, why is Hermione smart? Why is Harry stubborn? It's in their personalites and can't be explained. They are who they are. For the second point, they are because she's beautiful and something new to the town. She doesn't talk to them much, so she's not able to ask them, but we're given an idea. It's in her power to block Edward, because she blocked out memories when she was human. That power carried over.
[i]Yes. Leaving something out is okay. But this is the main protagonist's past we're talking about. How will the reader be able to empathize with her, to see the story in her POV if they aren't able to gouge out what made this person this way?[/i]
This makes no sense. I write stories too, but you don't need to write fully detailed histories and slap them in your story. That's stupid and boring and a huge turn off. MANY first POV books don't explain the character's back stories, because as I said, THEY ARE NOT IMPORTANT. if you want to write, you need to include things that actually AFFECT the plot. Her back story has NOTHING to do with Edward at all, so it's bad writing to include it. Knowing every single peice of information takes the mystery away from the book, and it's stupid to include things like that if you're not putting it to use. If her back-story included odd experiences where she may have seen vampires, that could be added, but it doesn't.
"What made this person this way" = the thing with stories is that you emphasize during the story once you figure out their personality. Not judging their back-story. Hermione for example, we don't know much about her, but through the novels we piece it together and like her. Ron, in the first novel, we know he's not well-off, but that's it. We don't know much about how he acts when he's home or what type of person he really is, but we love him still. We don't know much about Neville, except that he is scared of his grandmother. We only figure out in books 4-5. We still loved him. It's not important to include back stories if they're not needed.
[i]That's why it seems illogical and unrealistic for her not to have any plans and future before meeting Edward, for her to make Eddie her "whole life" just after they met. Well, what about her past? Is there nothing there worth living for?[/i]
I'm not going to argue on this, because I happen to agree. She didn't have any life ambitions, and it's a bit unhealthy for her to make Edward her life without actually pushing toward a certain goal.
Merope29 "You don't CHOOSE to be social or not. You either are or you're not. this isn't a book about phsycology. She's just anti-social. That doesn't make her special at all. It's the same with Harry Potter, why is Hermione smart? Why is Harry stubborn? It's in their personalites and can't be explained."
ah, but you see we do get a bit of a clue to what made them this way. Harry was maltreated by his guardians. This could have led to him being stubborn (because of his resentment of the Dursleys treatment, he didn't like being pushed around) Hermione (okay, she's a bit difficult, seeing she doesn't have much of a back story) her parents were well off dentists. since they're successful professionals, their daughter is also inspired to succeed and tend to be competitive in the process. Ron had to deal with poverty and his being the youngest son, who probably had to accept hand-me-down things from his brothers. this probably led to him always being jealous of Harry. Ron and Hermione and Neville weren't the main protagonist and yet the beauty w/ JK is that she gave us glimpses of their past, of what made them that way.
Now what about Bella? what made her so anti-social? what made her able to block vampire "powers"? was it genes? was it something from her past? some horrific or embarrassing experience? i find it hard to believe that she was simply born into the world as someone anti-social or as that one in a million (and in 100 years) who was able to block Edward's powers. there had to be something that happened to her that made her thus. Environment, after all, affects our development. When you try to pass her off as that special snowflake, you are making her a Mary Sue and unrealistic.
"For the second point, they are because she's beautiful and something new to the town."
so because she's new, every guy in Forks wanted to date her even if she wasn't really exceptionally pretty? a bit exaggerated i think.. but if you (or Meyer) say so...........
I never said to plot out their whole histories. a little hint here or there would have helped. their back stories would be our way of empathizing with the character. and since Bella is the main protagonist, it is crucial for us to get an idea of what she's been through and what made her the way she is so that we can understand her more, understand where all the angst is coming from, and relate to her. as a writer, i think you know how important this is for the reader to truly feel and understand the change that will happen to the characters (and the difficulty faced by the character when undergoing that change) later on in the story.
as for the back stories affecting the plot, then it's up to the author's creativity to make whatever happened in the past connect or somehow affect the events in the future. after all, Novels focus on the causality of the events in the plot.
youknowit101 Bella wasn't antisocial. She was an introvert loner. Loners are loners because they they feel like they can do better on their own, or when they don't have to rely on other people, or they want to avoid peer influences, or they have different responsibilities than other people.
Bella had different responsibilities. She's always been independent. She's always taken care of her mother who was careless. She can't relate to other people with that.
Cassie already told you about why she blocked some vampires. You're being ignorant and stubborn now.
youknowit101 Read this
"It was explained why Bella was immuned to certain vapire powers. I think you just choose to ignore it. She blocks bad memories from herself. This was demonstraited as well.
She was reluctant to tell Edward about her past, her mother's past, about Phil. The biggest demonstration was during New Moon. When Edward left, she didn't allow herself to think about him, or anything for three months, as to avoid painful memories. She wasn't stupid and just forgot to think. Because of this block, it's expected that Edward would be blocked as well. If Bella ignores her hippocampus, how can Edward, or anyone else, get into it? It didn't "just so happen". There's a reason. "
Then read this
"It was explained why Bella was immuned to certain vapire powers. I think you just choose to ignore it. She blocks bad memories from herself. This was demonstraited as well.
She was reluctant to tell Edward about her past, her mother's past, about Phil. The biggest demonstration was during New Moon. When Edward left, she didn't allow herself to think about him, or anything for three months, as to avoid painful memories. She wasn't stupid and just forgot to think. Because of this block, it's expected that Edward would be blocked as well. If Bella ignores her hippocampus, how can Edward, or anyone else, get into it? It didn't "just so happen". There's a reason. "
Then read this
"It was explained why Bella was immuned to certain vapire powers. I think you just choose to ignore it. She blocks bad memories from herself. This was demonstraited as well.
She was reluctant to tell Edward about her past, her mother's past, about Phil. The biggest demonstration was during New Moon. When Edward left, she didn't allow herself to think about him, or anything for three months, as to avoid painful memories. She wasn't stupid and just forgot to think. Because of this block, it's expected that Edward would be blocked as well. If Bella ignores her hippocampus, how can Edward, or anyone else, get into it? It didn't "just so happen". There's a reason. "
One more time and it will hopefully soak in
"It was explained why Bella was immuned to certain vapire powers. I think you just choose to ignore it. She blocks bad memories from herself. This was demonstraited as well.
She was reluctant to tell Edward about her past, her mother's past, about Phil. The biggest demonstration was during New Moon. When Edward left, she didn't allow herself to think about him, or anything for three months, as to avoid painful memories. She wasn't stupid and just forgot to think. Because of this block, it's expected that Edward would be blocked as well. If Bella ignores her hippocampus, how can Edward, or anyone else, get into it? It didn't "just so happen". There's a reason. "
Merope29 (sigh.) dude. i'm not being stubborn or ignorant or stupid. i did read what she wrote. (this is why i referred my answers based from DracoLuver's comments.) I explained in my comments why i kept asking.
oh, and btw: look a few comments up.
"Bella didn't like being social because she's antisocial. It's simple."
cassie-1-2-3 To be fair, he is much more studied in psychology than I am. I got the terms mixed up and he corrected me, and that's fine. I'm not automatically correct becuase I spoke of it first.
youknowit101 You forgot the *sigh*
cassie-1-2-3 [i] the problem was that she never tried to get over it. she fed her depression, was that good? no. … did she never tried writing or painting or anything? these hobbies could have been a great way to channel all those emotions, that way they aren't "ignored".[/i]
7 days ago
^I didn’t see this comment until right this moment, so I’ll go ahead and address it now.
[i] that's a very dangerous reasoning, I think. It's not about 'just stopping and getting over it'. the person must be willing enough to cure themselves. you are making it look like the "anxiety" (although I don't know why we are talking about anxiety. is it synonymous to depression?) was like an addiction. would feeding the addiction helps? no. you may alleviate the uncomfortable feelings but it would never stop. now if you try to divert it, (slowly, painfully even, but at least try) slowly try to focus on something outside the depression... wouldn't that yield better results?[/i]
Firstly, I’m not using anxiety as a synonym for depression. I have no experience with depression. I know anxiety, and it is what I saw when reading Bella’s thoughts. I believe anxiety to be an inconsistent, more intense form of depression, (Or vise versa, depression as a more spread out, less intense anxiety attack) and depression sufferers often experience anxiety. I did not fully understand Bella being sad all the time, because that’s depression and I don’t know what depression is like. What I did recognize and understand was Bella’s more intense actions (jumping onto a random motorcycle, jumping off a cliff into an ocean)
Secondly, it’s not like an addiction. You do not want it to happen. It happens without your desire, and you do what you can to get out of it.
[i] now what do i find illogical about Bella's so-called depression? i think it had something to do with her character. why-oh-why did Meyer made her as shallow as she is? She had absolutely no aspirations, dreams or goals outside being with Edward. I'm quite the idealistic type; every time someone says 'all girls think about nowadays are boys' i would point out that not all girls are like that. Surely, at 17, Bella would have had her own dreams. She would have had passions and interests. I know fellow teenagers who, even though they also have problems w/ fitting in and relationships and such, already know what they want in life. Their dreams are not merely to be w/ their prince Charmings and live happily ever after. They want to do something worthwhile for the world; they want their voices to be heard, to be able to show that hey,[/i]
You don’t [b]have[/b] to want to change the world. Nobody [b]has[/b] to be incredible ambitious.
You also don’t have to map out your entire future before the age of 17. Bella was still discovering herself and who she was. I also know people. I know people who, in their early 20s, are still deciding what they want to do with their lives. They don’t have definite goals yet. I have had teachers who went to school for dance or architecture what ended up as history and psychology teachers. You don’t always have to have your mind set at 17. Once something comes along that will help guide you, take advantage of it.
[i] for Bella to go into that serious depression because a bunch of Sparkly people left her is just unbelievable. I mean, were they the only people who loved her? no. there was Charlie and her mother. I know about special bonds about people and such but hey, did Eddiekins die? no. he left her and told her he doesn't love her anymore. some bond. if it was truly logical, Bella would have tried to pulverize that marble statue with a mallet. it was a big enough blow to anyone's self esteem to be dumped, so why try to worsen it by running and moping after the guy? Bella could have at least tried to leave w/ what was left w/ her pride still in tact. but she didn't. that's why it's obsession, not love. if she truly loved him, she would have had the strength to let go.[/i]
Are you suggesting that the only time a person should become depressed is when everyone they know dies? Bella is not the only figure that has ever become depressed. People become depressed for many different reasons.
The fact that depression is real, and is classified as an actual medical condition, and occurs without everyone in the world dying, makes this point quite illogical.
Now, to further explain anxiety/bits of depression (whatever you want to call it), and what it feels like, and why writing and painting will not make it go away…
Anxiety/bits of depression is like being suddenly trapped inside of a garbage bag. You’re stuck and surrounded.
Saying “Hmm, I’ll just think happy thoughts” will not get you out.
Painting a picture will not get you out.
Writing a poem will not get you out.
You have to actually do something to get yourself out. You have to reach forward and tear the bag open and step out.
Bella found herself trapped inside of the garbage bag when she was at the movies with Jessica. She had to get out of it before she suffocated. She saw the strange guys and approached them, giving her the adrenaline, or strength to reach forward. Getting on the random bike was tearing herself out.
Later, the bag came back. This time, she had to ride the motorcycle to tear herself out.
Yet again, it came back. She jumped into the ocean to tear herself out.
As I said before, taking up a hobby is not going to get you out of the bag. It will just cause you to do something, while in a bag. The bag is still there, whether you’re painting or not…
You can try your best to avoid the bag’s return, but it’s not easy. Painting and writing will help you temporarily ignore its presence, but the most effective way to once and for all eliminate this bag is through counseling and medication. Of course, people want to deal with it on their own first (Bella, for one) and when it doesn’t work, they seek help.
Another way for this bag to be taken away is for the person who put you in the bag to take you out of it. You, yourself, do not have control over the bag because you did not put it there.
cassie-1-2-3 Oh right
*sigh*
Merope29 I did not fully understand Bella being sad all the time, because that’s depression and I don’t know what depression is like.
^that's why i kept saying we should have had more of her back story. to get where the depression is coming from. if we do, then perhaps the logic will come.
Are you suggesting that the only time a person should become depressed is when everyone they know dies?
^no. I'm saying she went way over-the-top when she went into that serious depression. Eddie merely left her. dumped her. he was basically still "alive". and he dumped her. stronger people have survived and moved on from more serious problems than her. stronger people who have lost family members or even their whole families who was able to overcome it. he dumped her, then she goes moping around and risking her life just to see him?
perhaps if we had more idea on why she was so weak, we'd empathize with her more.
I know people who, in their early 20s, are still deciding what they want to do with their lives. They don’t have definite goals yet.
^but at least they tried. they searched for goals. they searched for something worthwhile to do in the world. in the end, the goal is to be a worthwhile person. the search for growth. did Bella look for that? what was Bella searching for when she went to Forks? she was 17. and she lived her life just moping by without looking forward to the future.
You have to actually do something to get yourself out. You have to reach forward and tear the bag open and step out.
I think jumping off a cliff and trying to hurt yourself is hardly something done to get herself out. it was aggravating the problem. instead of the goal of moving on from Edward, the goal was to hear his voices. to feed her fantasies. Now Bella was offered help by her father and she didn't accept it. because she wanted her addiction to Edward's voices to continue. I'd hardly call that logical. unless there was an explanation as to what made her such averse to help.
Another way for this bag to be taken away is for the person who put you in the bag to take you out of it. You, yourself, do not have control over the bag because you did not put it there.
^this is an example of depending your happiness to other people. Edward might have put her in "that bag" but why would she have no control over her own emotions? over her own anxiety? so you're saying that she has to depend upon Edward to cure her anxiety?
cassie-1-2-3 [i]^that's why i kept saying we should have had more of her back story. to get where the depression is coming from. if we do, then perhaps the logic will come.[/i]
We DO know where it came from. Reread this article. The books too, if you need to. I was saying I have nevr had depression, so i don't what exactly what it's like to have it, which is why I was talking about anxiety..
[i]^no. I'm saying she went way over-the-top when she went into that serious depression. Eddie merely left her. dumped her. he was basically still "alive". and he dumped her. stronger people have survived and moved on from more serious problems than her. stronger people who have lost family members or even their whole families who was able to overcome it. he dumped her, then she goes moping around and risking her life just to see him?[/i]
Of course stronger people can move on from more serious problems... That's what makes them stronger. Nobody said Bella's supposed to be the strongest person in the world.
People suffer from depression ALL THE TIME, for much lesser and serious problems. There is no internal scale, identical in every person, that says "Your problems must be to this standard before I send you into a depression"
[i]I think jumping off a cliff ???and trying to hurt yourself??? (She was not trying to hurt herself!!!) is hardly something done to get herself out...[/i]
It is, actually.
I don't know why you keep talking about addictions. nobody was addicted to anything.
[i]Now Bella was offered help by her father and she didn't accept it. [/i]
Like I said... people like to try to fix it on their own first, before seeking professional help.
[i]this is an example of depending your happiness to other people.[/i]
Isn't that wat you wanted her to do??? Weren't you going on and on about how Bella should have been talking to people to get better? That she shouldn't have isolated herself?? Now using other people to be happy is a bad thing?
I hate to be petty, but "there's no logic".
[i]Edward might have put her in "that bag" but why would she have no control over her own emotions? over her own anxiety? so you're saying that she has to depend upon Edward to cure her anxiety? [/i]
Ugh... That's what depression is. You lose control over your emotions. I did not say Edward was the only person who can cure her. I said he was someone who can cure her, since he was the one who put her in such a condition.
[b][u]NOBODY HAS CONTROL OVER THEIR OWN ANXIETY. THAT'S WHY IT IS ANXIETY. THAT IS THE DEFENITION OF ANXIETY[/B][/U]
It's obvious that you have no knowledge or experience with any sort of long term emotional dysfunction (lucky you) and you just can't comprehend it because you know nothing about it. Depression/anxiety is much more than being temporarily bothered.
It looks like you think depression is something you can just snap out of, or it only takes a short while to cure.
That's not te case.
A remarkable quick recovery still takes years. It takes most people MANY MANY years to get over depression. Many people suffer with depression for their entire life, or their entire adult life.
Bella only suffered for 8 months. She did very good.
KatiiCullen94 holy shit dude..
Merope29 this is an example of depending your happiness to other people.
talking to other people to cope is hardly depending on them. you just let them help you out. the getting over part depends solely upon yourself. but saying without Edward, she can never be happy, that's being dependent on the person.
I think jumping off a cliff ???and trying to hurt yourself??? (She was not trying to hurt herself!!!) is hardly something done to get herself out...
It is, actually.
how did that help her get out of the "bag"? like I said, the goal was to feed her fantasies. not to get over them. so that's how you deal with anxiety?
why was she sad all the time? what made her such a mopey kid even before she went to Forks? that's what i want answered with a back story.
if you're getting tired of explaining just say so.
youknowit101 Lol, she's not going to stop.
cassie-1-2-3 I never said "without edward, she can never be happy"
If you recall, I said that was one way to get over it, and that's how it ended up happening.
Yes, that's how you deal with it. Getting out of this bag takes action. hysical action. Not just thinking about stuff. You need to do something to get your adrenaline up to give you the strength to clear your mind and become sane again.
Collecting stamps, painting a picture, talking to people.
None of that gets your adrenaline up, so it wouldn't help at all.
Nobody said she was a mopey kid all the time. She was just calm... I guess. She wasn't sitting down, crying for no reason. I don't know why you say she was sad and mopey.
I'm not tired of anything.
Merope29 nope. not gonna stop. lol.
my main problem was Edward being "her future, her plans". as if she never had anything else in her life but Eddiekins. like she didn't have a life outside Eddie. like she couldn't build a new future without him. why? what is so wrong with a world without Edward? what's so hopeless about it? she's 18. Eddie was her first beau. why was she so unexcited about all the possibilities that can come her way at that age?
even before meeting eddiekins, she was never truly excited about the world, about going into a new school. she thinks every single day would be bad. she was mopey (mope- be miserable, full of sulky unhappiness). and what [i]made[/i] her thus? that's why it would have been helpful to know more about her back story. to know more about her past life back at Phoenix, her dreams and aspirations that she had to give up upon coming to Forks and upon becoming a vampire. that way we can empathize about the pain she supposedly went through when Eddiekins left her.
A back story would also help make her more human and real. How did she become the [i]special[/i] snowflake that she is, so that she among the hundreds of persons Eddie must have met in his 100 years as a vampire, becomes the only one who can block vampire powers out? (is she the only person who "blocks out sad memories" from their minds?)
[i]Of course stronger people can move on from more serious problems... That's what makes them stronger. Nobody said Bella's supposed to be the strongest person in the world.[/i]
[b]perhaps if we had more idea on why she was so weak, we'd empathize with her more.[/b]
[i]Yes, that's how you deal with it. Getting out of this bag takes action. hysical action. Not just thinking about stuff....None of that gets your adrenaline up, so it wouldn't help at all.[/i]
1.she should have tried riding a roller coaster. that gets adrenaline up. something where she wouldn't be in danger of hurting herself. and seriously, did hearing Edward's voice got her out of that proverbial bag? it looks to me like it only pushed her farther inwards. when the voices began fading she become even more anxious. sounds to me like it was just temporary relief. it never gets her out completely, and when she's back, she's into the [i]bag[/i] deeper. why didn't she seek a more permanent cure?
2. the goal was to keep hearing Edward's voice. not to forget him, not to get better from her depression, not to pick the pieces up and start anew. If she truly wanted to get better, to put the past behind her, she would've tried pursuing a hobby or a dream or an aspiration. and when you fall down, the logical reaction would be to try to stand up, right?
[i]that's[/i] what makes it illogical.
cassie-1-2-3 You know... Bella's depression was a lot like Rowling's depression.
J.K. Rowling became depressed because her husband left her. Do you suppose she was depending her happiness on a guy too? That she had no control over her own emotions? She was young and in her twenties. She could easily remarry, and I believe she did.
Of course she didn't, becuase she was depressed and that's what depression is. You lose control over her own emotions.
“I’d had a short and quite catastrophic marriage. I had to get my baby back to Britain and re-build us a life and [b][u]adrenaline kept me going[/b][/u]." - Quote from JK Rowling.
I don't know how shegot her adrenaline.
Plane rids, perhaps.
Maybbe she rode roller coasters.
Maybe she went bungee jumping.
I really don't know.
In a small town like Forks, Washigton, where they don't have roller coasters, there's not much to do but be reckless.
There's no disneyland or Islands of Adventure in Forks. They may possibly get a traveling carnival from time to time.
She did the closest thing she could to bungee jumping. She jumped into the ocean.
Rowling was suicidal. She wanted to kill herself. Not in the sense that she wanted to jump into the ocean, but in the sense where she wanted to be dead, despite having a sick mother and a two year old daughter.
I could call that selfish and irresponsible, but I won't. I'm sympathatic.
I'm sympathetic, even though I don't know her back story. All I know is that she became depressed because her husband left her.
He wasn't even her long term husband. She only knew him for 2 years, yet somehow, I'm still sympathetic. I don't know why she's prone to depression or why she's so mopey. That doesn't mean I shouldn't care or understand.
JK rowling bece depressed EVEN THOUGH she had a future and plans. She was writing Harry Potter! Of course she had plans. Having plans apparently doesn't immune you from depression.
"I loved Jessica very very much and was terrified something was going to happen to her."
“I’d gone into that very depressive mind set where everything has gone wrong so this one good thing in my life will now go wrong as well."
“It was almost a surprise to me every morning that she was still alive. I kept expecting her to die. It was a bad bad time.”
Rowling must have been addicted to depression, since she kept checking on her daughter.
Just like how Bella was addicted to depression because she kept hearing Edward's voice.
Bella had an irrational fear that something terrible was going to happen if she forgot about Edward, just like how Rowling had an irrational fear that her daughter was going to randomly die.
Fortunately, Rowling got over her depression becuase of Harry Potter.
I know you're probably thinking "Well, duh, because she had a hobby. Bella should have got a hobby" and such.
Rowling was lucky. She had this hobby before becoming depressed, so it's easy to continue.
Bella did too. I already mentioned this, but she was helping Jacob with his car, then she helped him with the motorcycles.
It didn't help her.
Hobbies aren't the answer to all.
Many problems can't be helped by ignoring the issue with a hobby.
I would also like to say that it took Rowling years to get over her depression. That's much longer than 8 months.
I'm not going to criticize Rowling and say she should have just gotten over it. It was just a guy. You don't have to be so dependant. Why did it take her so long? JK rowling, you depression is so illogical becuase I don't know your back story.
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posted by RavenclawRocks
OK, there are millions of people who write thest kind of articles, but please try and control your patience, and read this.
The Love
Harry Potter has love. Not lust.
Hermione didn't stare and Ron and say "OMG he is soooo hot, I am in love" no, Hermione and Ron started of as hating each other. Halfway through their first an they became friends. In HBP and DH they both started getting feelings for each other. They l’amour each other for who they are. That is real love. Twilight on the other hand has no real love. Bella and Edward fall in l’amour with each other, they kiss, Bella gets pregnant. ALL THIS...
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The Love
Harry Potter has love. Not lust.
Hermione didn't stare and Ron and say "OMG he is soooo hot, I am in love" no, Hermione and Ron started of as hating each other. Halfway through their first an they became friends. In HBP and DH they both started getting feelings for each other. They l’amour each other for who they are. That is real love. Twilight on the other hand has no real love. Bella and Edward fall in l’amour with each other, they kiss, Bella gets pregnant. ALL THIS...
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posted by KateKicksAss
One thing I've noticed in general is that anti's tend to make a pretty big deal out of the Twilight vampires sparkling. I've seen people saying things like real vampires don't sparkle, vampires not sparkling was a fact, and that it was gay of them to sparkle. Okay, of ALL the things to criticize in Twilight, people are going after the SPARKLING? Seriously?
First off, at least where I'm from, calling something “gay” as an insult is considered really rude and distasteful. Besides being rude and homophobic, it's also generalizing and stereotyping. Just because something sparkles doesn't make...
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First off, at least where I'm from, calling something “gay” as an insult is considered really rude and distasteful. Besides being rude and homophobic, it's also generalizing and stereotyping. Just because something sparkles doesn't make...
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posted by siriuslyawesome
Whoa. Its the final battle already? It seems like this all started a week ago....which it did....so...yeah.
NOTE: I am a Twilight fan, so do not suggest that I think all Twilight fans are crazy. I also think HP is better than Twilight, though. Just a little.
NOTE:I like HP and T, I am not trying to make fun of either, I'm just having fun with some of the ideas.
NOTE: okay, I'm just putting this note in to build suspense.
NOTE: This is it. The big one. The end. The last one. The one and only. The awesome one. The one that is the end. The climatic one. The one that, if toi do not read, will send...
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NOTE: I am a Twilight fan, so do not suggest that I think all Twilight fans are crazy. I also think HP is better than Twilight, though. Just a little.
NOTE:I like HP and T, I am not trying to make fun of either, I'm just having fun with some of the ideas.
NOTE: okay, I'm just putting this note in to build suspense.
NOTE: This is it. The big one. The end. The last one. The one and only. The awesome one. The one that is the end. The climatic one. The one that, if toi do not read, will send...
I was typing up an response to iluvtwilight_ for my personal enjoyment when someone reported the question and had it removed. I felt much frustration as what was once a very entertaining activity was reduced to pointlessness. This makes an already depressed person like me plus depressed. Siriusly, I want to committ suicide now...
No, I don't... not yet. But I considered leaving for a brief moment.
But to address this problematic issue. I present: link. O.o What's this? Wikipedia has a specific project devoted to adding humour to the site? OMG, on such a serious site?
Yes, even on such a serious...
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No, I don't... not yet. But I considered leaving for a brief moment.
But to address this problematic issue. I present: link. O.o What's this? Wikipedia has a specific project devoted to adding humour to the site? OMG, on such a serious site?
Yes, even on such a serious...
posted by Love4Hermione
So Harry Potter is MUCH better than some stupid book about wimpy girls and sparkly fairies. First off:
ALL the Twilight people are UGLY! I mean seriously, Taylor Lautners muscles are gross and he has ugly man-boobs. He looks like a creep on steroids. and Robert Pattison looks like a bum, and Kristen looks like a drug aggict as Bella. I mean, EW! Who wants to watch a movie with eyesores like them? Harry Potter is WAY better, I mean we have HOT guys, and the girls aren't half bad either! I mean. we have Lucius, Draco, Sirius, and Snape to say the LEAST! Plus like a zillion other eye-candy dudes!...
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ALL the Twilight people are UGLY! I mean seriously, Taylor Lautners muscles are gross and he has ugly man-boobs. He looks like a creep on steroids. and Robert Pattison looks like a bum, and Kristen looks like a drug aggict as Bella. I mean, EW! Who wants to watch a movie with eyesores like them? Harry Potter is WAY better, I mean we have HOT guys, and the girls aren't half bad either! I mean. we have Lucius, Draco, Sirius, and Snape to say the LEAST! Plus like a zillion other eye-candy dudes!...
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posted by Aquilia
Discussion regarding Twilight vampires and reply to Drisina at link
First Part:
The thing is Drisina, one cannot par fiat change a legend to whatever one very well pleases with. vampires have been in mythology from the 17th century, e.g. Countess Elizabeth Bathory who alledgedly drank her female servants blood to stay young.
So what Stephenie Meyer does is that she takes the vampire-myth, and discards the gorier details and imperfections, replaces them with what she thinks they should be and et voila, we have Edward Cullen.
Now I shall dissect why most people think its a bad thing to do. Recall...
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First Part:
The thing is Drisina, one cannot par fiat change a legend to whatever one very well pleases with. vampires have been in mythology from the 17th century, e.g. Countess Elizabeth Bathory who alledgedly drank her female servants blood to stay young.
So what Stephenie Meyer does is that she takes the vampire-myth, and discards the gorier details and imperfections, replaces them with what she thinks they should be and et voila, we have Edward Cullen.
Now I shall dissect why most people think its a bad thing to do. Recall...
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posted by harrypotterbest
The Volturi and The Death Eaters have a lot in common. This article points out the features of The Death Eaters that the Volturi seem to have as well.
Before I begin, toi have to remember that The Death Eaters were here first – so the Volturi copied them, not the other way around. Now, the leaders of the Volturi are –unless I’m very much mistaken – Aro, Marcus, and Caius. The leader of The Death Eaters is Lord Voldemort.
The Dark Lord can perform Legilemency, which is rather like mind reading, whatever Snape says. Aro can read minds too. The Dark Lord needs eye contact, Aro needs a...
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Before I begin, toi have to remember that The Death Eaters were here first – so the Volturi copied them, not the other way around. Now, the leaders of the Volturi are –unless I’m very much mistaken – Aro, Marcus, and Caius. The leader of The Death Eaters is Lord Voldemort.
The Dark Lord can perform Legilemency, which is rather like mind reading, whatever Snape says. Aro can read minds too. The Dark Lord needs eye contact, Aro needs a...
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posted by harrypotterbest
Severus Snape. The man we all hated. Then loved. Then went back to hating. And then we positively loathed him. But, after, we found out hi story. And, when we knew the truth, what did we feel? Love.
Yes, we ended up loving Severus Snape. Because, once we knew HIS side of the story, it was clear.
Snape had a difficult childhood, which probably led to his disturbed adulthood. But we knew nothing about this until we read The Deathly Hallows. And after we found out, found out exactly what he had suffered through, our emotions changed. Snape is one of the deepest characters in Harry Potter, and...
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Yes, we ended up loving Severus Snape. Because, once we knew HIS side of the story, it was clear.
Snape had a difficult childhood, which probably led to his disturbed adulthood. But we knew nothing about this until we read The Deathly Hallows. And after we found out, found out exactly what he had suffered through, our emotions changed. Snape is one of the deepest characters in Harry Potter, and...
posted by elderwand
It’s been a while since i am here in this Harry Potter vs Twilight community. Now, being a die hard Harry Potter fan my vote always go for the same, but I feel par criticizing any of the two of them is insulting the world of story writing. I give it a thought why this whole Harry Potter vs Twilight thing is started and all that comes to me is a memory of mine. At some point I liked Twilight (though not as much as I am obsessed with Harry Potter). Then one jour I had an argument with a friend of mine & naturally I sided with Harry Potter but hearing illogical criticism turned me against...
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posted by Blueeyes99
Ok, time for the other side of the story, in other words, time for another interview with a Twilight “hater”. Her name is Izabella, aka: venvargie! Let’s get started!
Could toi introduce yourself please!
Hah, okay well I'm Izabella. But I usually go par Ven on the interwebz. I'm turning 16 in a few months and I don't watch a lot of TV so I don't have a favori montrer xD.
What is it that toi hate about Twilight?
Well, I hate the sparkling thing the most. Growing up, I watched all kinda of scary vampire films with my older brother and they were always the kind that died in the light and vanted...
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Could toi introduce yourself please!
Hah, okay well I'm Izabella. But I usually go par Ven on the interwebz. I'm turning 16 in a few months and I don't watch a lot of TV so I don't have a favori montrer xD.
What is it that toi hate about Twilight?
Well, I hate the sparkling thing the most. Growing up, I watched all kinda of scary vampire films with my older brother and they were always the kind that died in the light and vanted...
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posted by Mrs-Grint
Heellooooo!!!! I'm feeling rather aléatoire today so I thought I'd take a leaf out of Emma's rather large, leather bound book and do a stupid Harry Potter quiz. It's not actually a story, just a aléatoire collection of letters put together to form a aléatoire collection of words which will, in turn, provide a aléatoire collection of potentially amusing sentences. So, enjoy my little freaks!!!
Beware: If toi have no sense of humour: DO NOT ENTER!!!
PS. I decided to post this on this spot as well as the HP one because everyone seems so mad at the opposition so I thought they might need a laugh :)
Read the...
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Beware: If toi have no sense of humour: DO NOT ENTER!!!
PS. I decided to post this on this spot as well as the HP one because everyone seems so mad at the opposition so I thought they might need a laugh :)
Read the...
posted by snapeislove
The "jejemon" mania is spreading in my country like mad.
I am a Filipino and Im getting really upset because almost half of the 'jejemon' population is in my country. Even my Friends greet me through text messages '.,inN DisZ qKinD oFv m4nN3Rr.,' and Im now confused if they're simply Twihards ou just some bunch of lunatics. I am also sad because when I chercher what 'jejemon' means it always come up with explanations that involve my country, am I gonna deny that I am a Filipino? will I curse them all because they're all proud of it? will I beg them to stop the stupidity? I know my options will...
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I am a Filipino and Im getting really upset because almost half of the 'jejemon' population is in my country. Even my Friends greet me through text messages '.,inN DisZ qKinD oFv m4nN3Rr.,' and Im now confused if they're simply Twihards ou just some bunch of lunatics. I am also sad because when I chercher what 'jejemon' means it always come up with explanations that involve my country, am I gonna deny that I am a Filipino? will I curse them all because they're all proud of it? will I beg them to stop the stupidity? I know my options will...
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posted by luv_warriorcatz
All credits go to Das_Mervin's sporking of the Twilight series: link
I just wanted to cut out this snippet and paste it here because I completely agree here. There is no being that's invincible, no matter how unnecessarily overpowered toi make them.
----------------------------------------------------
Meyer thinks that humans are limited to two types of weapons: pistolets and slow-moving bombs. Oh, Meyer. toi silly, silly bitch. There is one thing that we humans have been consistently good at since we first picked up a rock and looked speculatively at that tortue hiding smugly inside of its shell:...
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I just wanted to cut out this snippet and paste it here because I completely agree here. There is no being that's invincible, no matter how unnecessarily overpowered toi make them.
----------------------------------------------------
Meyer thinks that humans are limited to two types of weapons: pistolets and slow-moving bombs. Oh, Meyer. toi silly, silly bitch. There is one thing that we humans have been consistently good at since we first picked up a rock and looked speculatively at that tortue hiding smugly inside of its shell:...
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posted by tsmith120
I cannot stress strongly enough the contempt I have for the franchise of Twilight. ou at least the book. The films are plus funny than anything else, and honestly I don't hate any of the cast an crew working on it. Having read the source material, I can see they had little to work with.
Harry Potter, on the other hand... I like. I don't l’amour it; I'm no Potterhead par any means, however much I might have been in the past. But it will always hold a very special place for me. I grew up with the livres and films, lire and seeing them years apart from each other - growing up along with the characters...
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Harry Potter, on the other hand... I like. I don't l’amour it; I'm no Potterhead par any means, however much I might have been in the past. But it will always hold a very special place for me. I grew up with the livres and films, lire and seeing them years apart from each other - growing up along with the characters...