Quentin Hubbard Coroner's Report, Death Certificate and Commentary 

Quentin Hubbard Coroner\'s Report, Death Certificate and Commentary

NOTE: If you are looking for L Ron Hubbard\'s Coroner Report go to THIS PAGE to see it

For those readers who never knew cult-talk, I apologize for the following.

But since the story is absolutely true and occurred while I still was, as

salesmen put it, "under the ether," I will write it as I lived it. If you

don\'t understand the words I use, as the chinaman said, "You betta off!"

I have commented previously that leaving scientology and re- entering

society was like landing on a different planet. I had to learn the customs and

language of the "natives," adopt their manners [or lack of] and hope there was

But an even greater shock was going to Flag [in Clearwater] when it first

opened for business in 1976, to become Sea Org crew in the "Mecca of Technical

First of all there was the matter of deceiving the "local wogs" with our

shore story. All staff and students were told exactly what lie to tell any

Clearwater residents who asked about our presence: we were all religious

students on retreat at the new United Churches facility in the Fort Harrison

Hotel. Fortunately for us, few of the locals even cared to talk to the

staring, stiff, and sullen students and staff. But still, it didn\'t take long

for them to realize we were not who we claimed to be. It became very

Meantime, "The Friendliest Place on Earth" was also proving to be something

less than that. For me it was more like basic training in concentration camp

management. New staff and students were packed like sardines, twelve to a tiny

hotel room, in bunk beds four high with barely enough room to squeeze between

them. Any time the income fell below half a million dollars a week everyone

was assigned to "Rice and Beans." On these numerous occasions, all we were fed

was spanish rice and boiled beans. This was all part of showing the new

recruit what he was worth. The spiritual pecking order was energetically

applied and strictly enforced. Anyone new to Flag began as low man on the

Flag crew considered all "outer org" students or staff to be DBs [degraded

beings.] The fact that I had a wonderful reputation in the field and had run

the most successful Internship in the history of the cult, made no difference.

When I arrived at Flag I was treated like scum. Everyone was.

Brian Livingston [Class XII] was the Intern Sup and Jeff Walker [Class XII]

Brian, who has since blown the Sea Org and is no longer a scieno, made a

habit of getting up on a chair and screaming his lungs out at individual

interns. The standard message was that they were squirrels, out-ethics or just

plain stupid. His bellowing could be heard all over the tenth floor ballroom

of the Fort Harrison and the HCI [Hubbard College of Improvement.] Students

would hear him and go silent with terror at the thought of having to confront

Brian\'s wrath when they finally arrived on the internship. But this was just

fine with Brian. It made them a more cowed and compliant [than they

already were], when eventually he did have to deal with them.

Brian was the "nice" one of the two. Walker was the most feared. He

didn\'t have any completion statistic or bonus to contend with. He had no

vested interest in seeing that interns survived his "handling" of them. Thus,

he could act like the ruthless little prick he was.

Walker was famous for getting right up inches from your face, poking you in

the chest and screaming "PIG SHIT!" when he didn\'t like your answer to his

questions and wanted to show his disgust for you. One intern [who eventually

ended up in the galley], reported to cramming on a session she\'d done. After

Jeff read the errors in the folder, he threw open the 10th floor windows next

to his desk [which had no screens], pointed outside and commanded her to jump.

She talked about the incident for years afterwards, claiming she barely had

enough self-control to withstand his control. This kind of thing was a joke to

Jeff. He never failed to show his disdain for people. Usually disgust was the

kindest emotion he exhibited when dealing with outer-org interns. They just

weren\'t up to his standard or that of Flag auditors. Those few who survived

the indoctrination, gruelling hours, retreads, retrains and the constant

shifting politics of being Flag crew were at least treated like they were

somebody. Outer org students and interns were not.

Brian and Jeff were the two individuals who trained me when I first arrived

on Flag. They were my "models" of how staff were to behave. I won\'t go into

any detail on what it took to survive this indoctrination, win their respect

and become a valuable member of the "team." It did, however, take some severe

While I was still "green" at Flag, having only been there less than a year,

I was posted as Jeff Walker\'s junior: Intern Cramming Officer, FSO [Flag

Service Org]. What a thrill! Imagine getting to be trained by the most senior

Cramming Officer in the world! It had been my dream before coming to Flag, to

be trained in Cramming by Jeff. Here I was! Right under him. Oh, what I would

to stop handling those stupid outer-org interns, and I had to start.

He didn\'t even talk to me for several months, except to grunt his disgust

at me and the scum I was handling. I had to fend for myself, which was fine

with me because Jeff was [and is] one of the most unpleasant individuals I had

Apparently LRH didn\'t think much of him either, because two months after I

was on post as Intern Cramming Officer, Hubbard busted Jeff and posted me in

his place as Chief Cramming Officer, Flag. I was totally unprepared for what

I had to cram every auditor in the HGC including the Class XIIs. Since I

material up through Class XII. I had a person posted as my junior to handle

the interns, who was even greener than I. What a responsibility! I was now

the most senior Cramming Officer in all of Scientology. It was just what I had

I found out what was meant by the saying "Be careful of what you want . . .

you just may get it." What a nightmare! The pressure was so great on me that

I don\'t think I said more than a 12 sentences to my wife during my first month

on post. At the end of my 18 hour day, I would drag myself to my room, too

Then the disaster happened. It was bad enough to have to confront and cram

the likes of Brian Livingston [who had since been busted to HGC auditor] and

Jeff Walker [who had worked his way back up to the HGC after his LRH bust], but

finally the supreme test -- I had to cram the Commodore\'s own son, Quentin, who

reads on a C/S Series 53 when he first assessed it to an FNing list. PC didn\'t

progress, so the C/S ordered him to go back and assess it again. He found the

53 still reading, which indicated that reads had been missed the first time he

FNed it. [Those of you who don\'t understand what this was all about, are, as I

said before, better off. Suffice it to say that he\'d goofed up on someone

paying many hundreds of dollars an hour for his "counselling."]

messed up. It was a routine cram, but having to do it on LRH\'s son made it

Quentin, or "Q" as his friends called him, was 22 at the time. He looked

15 and acted 5. He was slight, blonde and effeminate in manner. While he sat

if front of me in Cramming, he was constantly zooming his hand through the air

between us and making noises simulating, much as a 5 year old would, the sound

and motion of an airplane. I had been told that he was infatuated with flying,

but I was unprepared for this: he did not stop his motions or noises through

DENNIS: "I see that you got some more reads on the 53 after it had FN\'d."

[swallowing] "How do you think this happened?" Q: "I false reported."

DENNIS: "You . . false . . . reported?" [beginning to stutter] "Uh-on the

w-worksheets?" [knowing that this was one of the highest crimes an auditor

could commit, and would require ethics handling and retraining "from the bottom

Q: "Yea. I false reported that the 53 FNed." [this said as casually as

DENNIS: "Uh . . . " [struck with the import of the moment] Q: "I

Q: "I mean I always false report when I have to FN a 53. I disagree with

having to do that on pcs. It never does anything for the pc and it costs him

hours of auditing. I think it\'s better to just false report and get on with

Q: "I think a lot of my father\'s stuff doesn\'t work. So I false report

whenever I need to. Personally, I think my father\'s crazy."

[By this time, I had turned white and was sure that saliva

DENNIS: "Uh . . you know . . . I\'m going to have to re- train you . . .

don\'t you?" [hoping, beyond hope that it would be ok with him]

Q: "That\'s fine." [zoom goes the hand in the air] DENNIS: ". . .from

DENNIS: "Well . . .[glancing at my watch and praying it was dinnertime]. .

it\'s almost four . . . why don\'t you come back

tomorrow . . . after I\'ve had a chance to go over the folder more carefully,

routing form and retrain order] . . . then we\'ll get you started on your

retrain." [said under my breath as he got up to leave] Q: "Ok."

By the time this short conversation was over, I was gasping for air and my

heart was pounding so loudly I could barely hear the thought screaming inside

my head: "THAT\'S LRH\'S SON YOU\'RE ABOUT TO RETRAIN FROM THE BOTTOM!!!!"

I went running out of the Cramming room looking for the only Class XII

friend I had who had not yet blown, Ron Shafran. I found him near the swimming

pool and he made me calm down enough to tell him the story. I asked him what I

should do and he gave me the type of profound and deeply meaningful answer for

which Class XII\'s were famous. "I d\'know. Do what you hafta!" and walked

quickly away. [He and his wife Linda left within the year.]

The next day was more or less routine, except for my underlying dread of

having to bust the Commodore\'s son back to the HAS course. I went about my

business and didn\'t notice the day had flown by without Q reporting in, until

By the afternoon of the next day, he still hadn\'t shown. My conscience was

beginning to give me pressure. I felt guilty about my relief at his not

showing up. Was this some kind of overt I was committing? No doubt! Better

By now Quentin\'s retrain was the talk of the Tech and Qual divisions. I

knew most people were betting he\'d get off scot-free. He seemed to be in no

I went looking for anybody who might know where Quentin was. Nobody did.

Finally, I bumped into one of his few close friends. I believe it was Cathy

Cariotoki who finally told me: Quentin had left for the West Coast to enroll

I felt cheated. How could he be allowed to just skate out of the ethics

thought: "Get real!! He\'s the Commodore\'s son, that\'s how."

I should have been screaming to the Qual Sec and Senior C/S about Q\'s

out-ethics. But instead I justified my cowardice in allowing him to walk away

with his certs not pulled, by saying, "Well, he\'s probably not going to be

But, then, things had a tendency to move quickly from one emergency to

another on Flag. "On with life!" or so I thought.

A couple of weeks later I arrived in the crew dining room for dinner to

find the whole place quietly a-buzz with the news: "QUENTIN\'S DEAD! NO ONE

KNOWS HOW HE DIED. HE MIGHT HAVE BEEN MURDERED!"

At that moment, hand to the Lord, I thought, "Rumor has it that LRH was

really pissed at Q. It was a huge loss of face for "the boss" having a gay

son. This most recent disgrace -- the false reporting -- was the last straw. I

We learned later that he was found in his car in the desert near Las Vegas

airport. All the windows were closed and there was a tube from the tail pipe

into the car. The car and his person had been stripped of all evidence such as

licenses, which would identify the occupant. He was still alive, but

unconscious when he was found. Something happened in the hospital and he

died two weeks later without regaining consciousness. His death was listed as

a "possible suicide." There are obviously a few questions still unanswered

For instance, we never did find out the cause. Neither did the police.

But, when you think of the kind of life he was facing, with a megalomaniac

father who considered him a liability in a grand scheme for world domination,

Arnie Lerma: During a talk radio show I was doing about Scientology a man called in, said that he was turning the dial and heard scientology mentioned. He said his name was Joe Leisa, I later found out that there was a Joe Leisa listed as an unindicted co-conspirator in the US vs Mary Sue Hubbard criminal trial of 1982. Joe told the following story:

"Mary Sue Hubbard hired me to find out what happenned to Quentin. He was found in the desert, with a hose running from the exhaust to the drivers window which was cracked open to accept the hose, the motor was idling. The sand around the car had been brushed clean of all markings. In the trunk was a carpet runner. Forensic examination proved that is contained hairs belonging to Quentin Hubbard on it"

Joe Liesa suggested that Quentin would have had been immobilized elswhere, transported to the site in the desert rolled up in the carpet runner in the trunk, then the event staged to look like a suicide.

Webmaster\'s Note added September 2004 - There was a strange emphasis in Joe Lisa\'s voice, that made me think that he wanted to emphasize that it was Mary Sue Hubbard who had wanted to know what happenned to Quentin, not L Ron Hubbard. Hubbard, who was deeply involved in Alestair Crowley\'s Satanic practices, had at one time tried to do a "Moonchild" ceremony with Jack Parsons - See Paul Rydeen\'s "Jack Parsons and the Fall of Babylon 1995" the only other mention I can find of anyone doing this "Moonchild" ceremony which is supposed to invoke "The Whore of Babylon" - some eveil spectre that gives you satanic power, happens to have been one of Hitler\'s mentors.

"From page 24 of Gods and Beasts - the Nazi\'s and the Occult by Dusty Sklar

"Pretzsche had introduced Hitler to consciousness-expanding drugs, as well as to astrological and alchemical symbolism. Hitler told Stein that Pretzsche had been present when List tried to materialize "the Incubus" in a ritual designed to create a "Moon Child."

If Hubbard was in fact using Dianetics and Scientology to covertly run Crowleys Satanism on an unsuspecting public, is this next law, from crowley\'s "Book of the Law" related in any way to Quentin\'s death? Did he then let his wife get sent to prison because she suspected Hubbard might have been behind it? (Quentin\'s death) Was this a way for Hubbard to try and invoke (in his mind ) additional dark powers? "Let the Scarlet Woman Beware I will slay me her child" Alestair Crowley\'s "The Book of the Law" III:43"

I asked Joe if he was still in Scientology. He didn\'t answer directly, but said that he stopped by and bought some of Hubbards books not too long ago.

Also see Kima\'s story on exit page for grisly details.. that Joe did not discuss on the air.

L. Ron Hubbard\'s reaction upon hearing of his son\'s death was, "That stupid f**king kid! That stupid f**king kid! Look what he\'s done to me!" (Source: "Bare Faced Messiah" by Russell Miller, Chapter 20, P. 344 http://www.scientology-kills.org

FROM: Jon Atack - "A Piece of Blue Sky" Page. 213:

February had been a very busy month. As we shall see in the next chapter, 1976 proved to be a very busy year. In October, Hubbard suffered a tragic blow. Back in 1959 his son Nibs had left Scientology. From that time, Hubbard had pinned his dynastic dream upon Quentin, his oldest son by Mary Sue.He had frequently announced that Quentin would succeed him as the leader of

Scientology. At the end of October 1976, Quentin was found, comatose, in a parked car in Las Vegas with the engine still running. Quentin was rushed to a hospital where he died two weeks later, without regaining consciousness. He was not identified until several days after his death. Although no precise cause of death was determined, Quentin had certainly suffered from carbon monoxide poisoning. He was twenty-two years old. Quentin had tried to measure up to his father\'s expectations--he was one of the few top-grade Class Twelve Auditorsrebut he did not share his father\'s temperament. By all accounts he was far too gentle to govern Scientology, or indeed to govern anything. All he wanted was to fly airplanes, and he often pleaded with his father to allow him to leave the Sea Org and do just that. He had disappeared several times in an attempt to escape. There was also an aspect of his nature which could never be reconciled with his father\'s philosophy: Quentin was a homosexual. There is little doubt that his death was self-inflicted, as he had attempted suicide before.\'\' Mary Sue broke down and wailed when she heard the news. She later tried to persuade friends that her son had died from encephalitis. Quentin\'s father\'s response was cold-blooded, he was furious that his son had let him down. There was an immediate cover-up. Documents were stolen from the coroner\'s office and taken to Hubbard. In accordance with Hubbard\'s policy regarding bad news, Scientologists were not told about Quentin\'s death. Some who found out were told he had been murdered.

Subject: Quentin Hubbard Coroners Report- pgp signed [corrected]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Quentin Hubbard Coroners Report [uploaders comments in brackets] [blank sections of form not typed in] Office of the Coroner-Medical Examiner Case No 1003-76 County of Clark 545 Shadow Lane, LAs Vegas, Nevada 89106 Report of Investigation Decedent [says JOHN DOE on line and then has ] GEOFFERY QUENTIN MC CAULLY HUBBARD [written over it] Age: 22 Sex MAle D.O.B. 1-6-54 Race Wht Address: 210 S Ft Harrisson Ave., Clearwater, Fla. Tel No 813 461 1267 Occupation: Student Employed by: Church of Scientology S.S # None Reported By: SNMH 11-12-76 9:55 PM Location of Body: S.N.M.H. Room #216 East Type of Death Apparent Natural____ Violent___ AT Work _____ Not at Work ___X___ Death occurred presence of 11-12 9:25 PM SNMH Staff Last Seen By 11-12 9:24 PM SNMH - Staff Pronounced dead by 11-12 9:25 PM Dr. Almufdi Cor-M.E. Notified by 11-12 9:55 PM SNMH Body Viewed by 11-12 10:10 PM MacKinnon Identified by 11-18 10:25 AM Arthur J. Maren - Los Angeles Calif Decedent Physician Dr. Lecour Law Enforcement Agency LVMPD Officers Dibble - Jergovich Property Receipt No. 6706 Property in Custody of none taken Death Notification Next of Kin L Ron Hubbard Relationshsip Father Address Ireland Person notified (if other than N.O.K. ) Church of Scientology Address 210 S Ft Harrisson Ave Clearwater Florida Tel No. 813 461 1267 Means of notification: In Person Notification made by Mary Rezzonico DAte & Time 11-20-76 11[illegible] Custody of Body Removed by Mortuary Vehicle To CCCME Driver Lipinkoff Assisted by MacKinnon Mortuary Conducting Service Mortuary Palm Report of investigation Case # 1003-76 Decedent JOHN DOE - GEOFFERY QUENTIN MC CAULLY HUBBARD Description: Height 66 1/2 Weight 111 Hair Red Eyes Blue Tattoos None Scars None identified Other Identifying Features Red mustache Rigor Mortis None Livor Mortis Slight posterior Narrative Summary: Viewed decedent lying on back on hospital bed nude. No vital signs present. No trauma noted. There is a I.V. in the left arm, a N.G. tube in place, a foley cath inserted. There are needle puncture marks on both arms. There were many little white bumps on both upper arms and upper chest area According to hospital records, decedent was found on 10-28-76 in a car with motor still running on Sunset road. He was unconscious. Decadent was then transported to hospital by Mercy, arriving at 9:10 A.M. 10-28-76 Admitting diagnosis was possible carbon monoxide poisoning. Throughout decadent\'s hospitalization he would have seizures intermittently A Angiogram showed a possible cerebral abcess. All other x-rays were negative. Toxics were negative, as was the carbon monoxide. culture of sputum and blood revealed staph, [Note 1] coag-positive. WBC on 11-7-76 show a 17,800 count with 89% shift [Note 2] Decedent was comatose throughout hospitalization and possible respiratory and cardiac was final cause of death at 9:25 PM 11-12-76 ACTION TAKEN Examining Physician Dr. Green Autopsy_xx__ View ___ Case Not Accepted _____ Toxicology Taken___________________________________Requested_________ Green Hold_______________________Box Locked_______Date____Time_______ [Note 1) see [feb2002 sorry link below no longer works as reference on this ] http://www.kumc.edu/instruction/medicine/pathology/ed/ch_9b/c9b_staph_morph.html] Note 2)"Any infection or acute stress will result in an increased production of WBCs. This usually entails increased numbers of cells and an increase in the percentage of immature cells (mainly band cells) in the blood. This change is referred to as a "shift to the left"."] from http://www.healthanswers.com/database/ami/converted/003643.html [ Link is dead Feb 2002 ]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQEVAwUBNuYpkoRNsj7Ioi8tAQEtAwf+MeEkYdE/imrI0Ikx81e21cn6RVHoSwIh 5uH3zGVp14HaOmhu7XOkoOFpZJzOeo1dA32Gt0aDMkLhNC/O6ZtfCjXaHAmGk1rx GGY9fRAPOYJbYMOoduxC1POTT78tS9cdtwuqTrw83OVY1+/dLy5j5t5q9/cgeF60 J+OER3eatjUqeDwJAelAQBaynqEG8dw/IPtbPER680sj52rkFFwHMilU6299ZFZx nbjMRRSKQVb1M/OhlCAK2AFeRUNlZfYBUoVTgEy6kVV18SQjeMhvZtP9LWYQE7YK BgxmswCNOfWAUTB997s/+VtryybqdMMx3M/y5kMk2Dc5vmTihYFrCw== =lJHL -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Secrets are the mortar binding bricks as lies together into prisons for the mind. I\'d prefer to die speaking my mind than live fearing to speak. The only thing that always works in scientology are its lawyers The internet is the liberty tree of the 90\'s http://www.lermanet2.com