Umbridge can work (very, very hard) to undo the discriminatory laws she was responsible for and apologize for all the harm she caused. Bellatrix can't exactly un-kill or un-torture people. Umbridge doled out a fair amount of torture to students too, but nobody died because of it.

(still h8u, u evil pink toad)

That is very true but I feel as if she'd actually be less willing to try to redeem herself. Because with her I've been under the impression that she holds all of her unpleasant beliefs and viewpoints by choice. Like she formed them herself. Where as Bellatrix was bought up on faulty beliefs. I think that if she actually got the adequate mental health care she needs she may have a chance. It would take a lot of tedious effort but I feel like it cold happen.

Of she can't unkill someone but I feel like she'd somehow be easier to help.

Though she's a badass villain so I don't know if I'd actually want that lol.

(no1 likez teh toad)

I agree with you about choice vs. upbringing in these characters, but I disagree with how it could play out. I think Umbridge could change under the right circumstances. (Like if it was no longer to her benefit to be the worst person in the room.) I think she knows what she's doing is messed up, and takes pleasure in that. With Bellatrix, it seems ingrained, natural. Like you said, she was brought up this way, and it feels like a choice with Umbridge. I am now seeing Trump parallels, oh god, this explains so much. Came outta nowhere, no one took her seriously, she imposed her insane, outrageous beliefs on everyone, recruited impressionable youth to become her toadies (;D) and carry out her evil plans on those who resisted, she became a huge threat to the safety and well-being of everyone around her. Those who didn't directly benefit from her power trip hated her. Yikes. Reel it in, Dasm.

I don't want Bellatrix to be redeemed either, sometimes it's nice for the bad guys just to stay bad guys. *cough*OUAT*cough*

I think that she could redeem herself but I think she'd be more stubborn. But then again Bella is also extremely set in her beliefs. I guess I'm also saying Bellatrix out of...well I don't know what to call it; out of thinking Umbrige would actually maybe be more scary as a good guy lol. Like she'd either be super nice like you're stereotypical grandma or she'd be that really weird kind of nice that creeps you out a little.
That's actually why I think she'd be harder to redeem; because she does bad things to keep herself safe and because she knows it's wrong but chooses to do it anyhow. Self-preservation is kind of a natural instinct of it's own in my opinion and it's pretty hard to get out of a 'me me me' habit. She also in that way has a power addiction; also very hard to break especially when coupled with selfishness.

And on top of that she knows that what she is doing is wrong and consciously chooses to do wrong anyhow. Whereas with Bella (as you said) it's ingrained and natural. I think that Bellatrix blurs the line between right and wrong. And due to her childish nature (in her own twisted way) not even realize that's she's doing wrong--I mean between a mental illness and the shoddy morals taught to her. That's why I think she'd be easier to help; because she just needs to be taught decent morals. Though with Azkaban she's probably too far gone. But pre-Azkaban I think she'd have had a chance.

Dolorandald Trumbridge. Dolorandald Trumbridge and her rival Bellernie Lestranders. x'D Yo that is the best description of Umbridge ever; her toadies! Omg, I'm dying lol. And Bellernie is trying to bring free Hogwarts tuition to the masses. Or is Bellatrix more of a Hilatrix Clistrange--full of owl post scandals. Always changing her view point to suit Voldemort's and preaching about economic inequality while wearing that expensive new necklace she bought with all of her Gringotts gold.

I loved Regina's redemption arc and Zelena's is pretty cool but Gold should just stay bad because he's cooler that way. Though I love evil Regina too; but I want her to get her happy ending too much for that.

Okay: Umbridge could APPEAR like she's attempting to make herself a better person.

Self-preservation is the reason Toadface could choose to "be good". She got ahead at the ministry because somebody apparently agreed with her insane ideas. She had support, so she was probably telling whoever whatever they wanted to hear to remain in power. Maybe she actually started believing this stuff along the way, maybe it was always there, maybe she knows it's bullshit and just does it because that's what the ministry wants. I think if she thought she could rise to power again by pretending to be a good person, that's what she'd try to do.

Of course, this is all kind of irrelevant, 'cause she's... *makes centaur noises*

Dolorandald Trumbridge and Bellernie Lestranders, oh my god. XD Hilatrix Clistrange is obviously the most famous link of the wizarding world. XD

I genuinely do wonder who thought her ideas were good lol. I guess between the pink and the kitties she was able to trick them into thinking she was a friendly and kind lady. That and as you said, she tells people who can benefit her what they want to hear. At least Bella is honest lol. I can see her faking it until she makes it.

xP

I can actually see Bellatrix becoming a stripper or a porn star lol. Mostly because Helena has played a stripper before and she did a pretty solid job lol.

Bellatrix would be more redemable. Her beliefs were learned through indoctination and her fanaticism comes from mental instability. Both of these can be remedied/cured. Bella might be zelously fighting for the wrong cause, but it's one she belives is both righteous and to the benefit of Wizarkind. She has integrety - she stands for and is willing to suffer for what she belives in and she cares for those she considers to be her family.

Umbriged is just a mean selfish person with no morals. She's in it only for herself and is willing to do anything for her self benefit. She cares for no one and has no empathy.

^ This is another point I was getting at; when it comes down to it Bella also fit that 'every villain is a hero in his own mind' mentality. She thought she was doing good and she has this crazy loyalty. She was loyal to the very wrong side though. Whereas Umbridge was simply just self-serving.

Bellatrix could possibly change if she given the right treatment as for Umbridge she just does it for Power.

^

I got the impression that Umbridge simply parroted whatever opinions were in favour at the time. She claimed loyalty to Fudge while he was Minister of Magic, then when she appeared later she was caring a lot more about blood purity than she ever mentioned caring about it before. If it became apparent to her that repentance and redemption would be to her advantage, she'd go for it - or at least behave in a manner which'd make it look like she's going for it.

Bellatrix, on the other hand, was really into her pureblood supremacy ideas. She would stick to her guns regardless. Her defiance at her trial was a good example of that.

Umbrige also has warn a piece of Voldys soul and was not affected she could even cast a patronus charm under the affect of it Harry could not. The trio was all affected by it Umbrige was not. She did not show signs of remorse when she sent muggleborns to there deaths or when she tortured children. She set laws against half-breeds taking there land and taking there rights. She know when she was doing and was contently aware of the pain she coursed she a psychopath.

Sorry about the brake between post I was lazy XD

That's a good point with the Horcrux thing though. I mean you have to be a bit dark to not even be affected by magic that powerfully dark in nature.

@Flicker As far as going for whatever opinion is in favor, personally I think that's why she'd be harder to redeem. As I stated above she's completely for herself. And power hungry characters tend to be much more deeply rooted in their addiction to it. They step on anyone who crosses them with out a damn to give. For me making it look like she wants redemption because it's the in thing is still bad because not only is it not genuine but now we have lies ad decide mixed in with a grab for power. At least Bella has some loyalty and love in her, it just needs to be redirected. Umbridge just seems self-serving and hateful through and through. She hasn't been shown to love anyone self aside. I mean she cut her own squib brother and muggle mom off. To cut your own family off like that takes a degree of your own blood supremacy; I don't think she'd cut her own family off because it was favorable at the time--unless her power lust was that strong (which is just as bad as supremecy anyhow). Honestly this is just more proof that she is couciously making dreadful decisions despite knowing it's wrong. In other words she did exactly what Bella did to Andromeda, so she's really no better as far as supremecy beliefs go.

Hope you don't mind the debate.

No, not at all! In general though, I don't think Bellatrix would ever try to redeem herself - she's too entrenched in her ways and she enjoys it too much. I guess the real answer here is neither.

That's true though. They both a very latched to their ways.

Bellatrix enjoys being bad way too much. She'd never want to change her ways. She sees being evil as the only way to be.